Comment

Comment by Jennifer Bell on March 4, 2012 at 8:27am

One more point to consider is this:  if Manitou charges hikers to do the Incline, many will simply move over to run/walk Ute Pass Trail instead...& some parts of it are more dangerous than the Incline.

Comment by Andrea Maneen - Barry on February 28, 2012 at 1:37pm

As a resident of Manitou and the Incline neighborhood for many years,  I hope we can find solutions with partners such as the Chamber of Commerce, City of Manitou and the Cog Railway. Also, check in with other groups in town like Friends of Cheyenne Canon and Garden of the Gods just to get a read on how they handled discussions with similar features as this one. 

Most folks that use incline are respectful and will walk distance to hike or run it.   Lets keep discussion open and try to attend all relative city council meetings even if you are not a Manitou resident.  I agree with Jennifer that if you are in for the work out - warm up with a cup of java at Spice of Life and hike to the incline if so inclined....pardon the pun ! 

Comment by Matt Brinski on February 27, 2012 at 5:51pm

There are a lot of parallels being made regarding paying to park / use the Incline and paying to use other trail systems or hiking Colorado wilderness areas. It's important to remember that the Incline isn't a natural phenomenon that is being exploited for profit (like the Maroon Bells area for example). It is a completely human engineered and built structure that has been abandoned. It wouldn't exist without the rail ties and drainage diversions keeping it stable, so it is unfair to compare it to a National Forest area that everyone should be able to use without interference.

I've always had the opinion of leaving the Incline as is and forgo any attempt to make it officially legal to use. As long as I can keep using it on a near daily basis as I have for the past few years, why fix what isn't broke? The current state of the Incline works for me, right? However, I know that the current situation isn't sustainable, and the Incline requires a good deal of periodic maintenance. That maintenance takes staffing and funding.

I'm not necessarily for a use fee, but if that's what it takes then so be it. I'm not going to lie and say that I won't use the Incline anymore if I have to pay. I will. I would rather see a different source of funding such as pay parking all the way down Ruxton with exempt permits to residents. If someone refuses to use the Incline because they have an aversion to walking or running up Ruxton to get to a 2,000' vertical gain climb, then that is just hilarious to me.

If a use fee is implemented, a good idea would be to allow any individual who volunteers a designated amount of time to maintain the Incline, the ability to use it without any cost.

Another idea that I heard floating around out there is to put a chip timer on it and sell or rent chips to climbers. I think that could work as part of a revenue stream for maintenance.

Whatever the source of funding, the funds need to be reserved for the Incline only. They shouldn't be re-directed to other areas of the city budget(s).

Also, it shouldn't be a goal to reduce the number of people coming into Manitou to use the Incline. If that is an indirect effect, that's one thing. But for a city council member to want to reduce the influx of people into his city, that type of thought is not something I would imagine to be part of basic city management. :)

Comment by Michael Everson on February 27, 2012 at 11:31am

I wonder how many people pay to use Barr Trail.  There is a donation box at the trailhead, but that box generates less than $1000 per year.  I'd bet the same would occur at the trailhead of the Incline.  Hell, we've put up plastic bag container and keep the bags in the container for people to clean up their dog crap.  Yet there remains many piles of s#!t at the trailhead and on the Incline itself. 

Comment by Matt Gawlowski on February 27, 2012 at 8:28am

Paying for parking is reasonable; anything beyond that needs to be justified by direct expenses related to the trail itself...and right now, I don't see the justification.  My other concern is that once any fee is put into place, it becomes relatively easy to increase that fee over time, and for that reason I oppose a 'pay to climb' fee.

Comment by Adam Rich on February 26, 2012 at 1:31pm

Being that I do not use the incline, I do see a need for at least the parking fee money to be used to maintain and improve the incline and surrounding trails. The amount of traffic up there kills the trail and without money to improve and fix it basically just keeps destroying the trail. For me I really only run on the roads anyways, so my imput is not really as good.

Comment by Jennifer Bell on February 26, 2012 at 9:18am

Pay to park? Yes!  It's funny that we all want to head to the Incline to rip out a challenging work-out...but we want to park as close as possible to the trailhead...For a REAL work-out we should run or hike or bike to the Incline & then hit the steps...If I'm too lazy to do that (& I often am!), then I'm perfectly happy to pay to park.  I'll view it as a donation to the maintenance, which is sorely needed, of the Incline.

Comment by Doug Leavy on February 24, 2012 at 9:09am

I totally agree with a parking fee that (a yearly pass would be cool as well) funnels all funds to the maintenance of the Incline. I'm with Michael and his fee idea $1.00 a trip and maybe I'd suggest a yearly pass for like $25-50?? I know plenty of folks who would not cringe at those prices. For the little I have used it a daily use parking fee would do me fine. Also if people continue to "self-clean" the incline on the way down, it will only keep the costs down for said maintenance (and staffing??). One thing this should NOT turn into is a revenue stream for Manitou or El Paso County.

Comment by Michael Everson on February 23, 2012 at 4:36pm

Those who use the Incline should pay for the maintenance of the trail.  We gotta stop asking taxpayers to pony up.  Funds are too limited.  I think it would be cheaper to pay to use the inlcine than to get a gym membership.  And the workout is always a good one.  My guess is that the people who use the Incline will park in town where they are not charged as long as they move in three hours.  That will damage the businesses in town.  If we are going to have rules--no dogs, trash, etc., then there needs to be someone to enforce those rules.  No one is going to call the police when they see a dog on the trail.  If there is an employee at the trailhead, that person could enforce rules.  I'd pay $1.00 per trip, or get a season pass.  If it's true that over 250,000 trips are made per year, there is a ton of revenue that could be generated by charging for use.   Sure, some of the 250,000 would stop using if charged, but if 200,000 continued, that's certain to generate well over 175,000 per year  (season pass holders would likely get dicounted).  That money could be used for trail mantenance, employee expenses, etc..  Won't be easy no matter what is decided.  For now, I'll continue to clean trail on the way down and bring up rebar and supplies when needed and I can.

Comment by Roger Austin on February 23, 2012 at 3:55pm

Personally I don't like the idea of having to pay to use the I/cline since like Jeff mentioned, there is no fee for other trails or parks around Manitou or Colorado Springs--but I'd pay since it is such a great workout.  Paying for parking seems reasonable, escpecially since Ruxton is so congested and from what I hear, it the largest problem.   Then no matter what trail you're on (and there are 3 right by the I/cline) your still paying... and Manitou Springs already has parking enforcement employees. Heck, you gotta feed the meter in most cities.  Could also have 1 hour parking--would help people speed up workouts.  :-)  I am curious for more details on how a fee to use the I/cline would work,,, how much? pay for each climb? summer pass? annual pass?  Any liability issues for safety since people would be paying?  Also curious how they would enforce it since people are there all day and night--seems they would need a fulltime monitor.   Volunteer maintenancne days are also a good way to help address repairs and upgrades,,,, last trailwork day was fun.  Regardless, thank you to all involved in working through the details to legalize the I/cline

Comment by Rob Lucas on February 23, 2012 at 2:08pm

I totally understand the residents' frustration with the parking situation but I thought they were planning to mainly permit parking on Ruxton which will push hikers down into downtown Manitou.  I don't know much about the Jenkins property other than people mentioning it in the public meetings.  At $5 a pop for parking, it seems they could make a lot there a pay for it in a few years.  Another resident concern I've heard is the traffic jams.  It's partly from Incline users but from what I've seen it's more because of the Cog.  Incline users come and go fairly randomly but when a train comes back and lots of people try leaving at once is when traffic really backs up on Ruxton.

Comment by Rob Lucas on February 23, 2012 at 1:59pm

I've said from the beginning I wouldn't mind paying if it's reasonable and not a hassle.  I think though they should put in a voluntary donation pipe and see what happens.  If they really find they need to do more than that, I'd want it to be something I could pay say $25 for a year and get a tag I could put on my shoelace or something.  Last thing I want to do is drive across town and realize I forgot cash or whatever is necessary to hike.  Actually between Manitou getting the Barr Parking lot fees and tax money from people spending money in Manitou that they wouldn't spend otherwise, I think they're getting plenty out of the deal.  The majority of the time I hike the Manitou Incline, I spend money there I wouldn't otherwise spend in Manitou.

Comment by Jeff Gallup on February 23, 2012 at 1:44pm

Parking is fine... but to climb the Incline? not so much.  There aren't charges to hike other trails.   I might consider a relatively low annual fee, if it included a timing chip like I heard had been mentioned, but that should be optional.  And Tim, I agree... I don't think that just by legalizing it, that the volume of climbers will increase much over what it is now.   Also, I love Manitou and what it has to offer, and we spend a fair chunk of change there, as opposed to how incliners are portrayed. 

Comment by Tim Bergsten on February 23, 2012 at 12:48pm

The key for me is opening the Incline. The status quo is not sustainable and will only lead to more illegal use, more denigration and the likely closing of the structure. The Incline Management plan calls for the Incline to be repaired and maintained with grant money, as well as funds raised by the new Incline Friends group. This saves everyone from having to pay. I think it's also crucial to be fair and respectful to Manitou Springs residents and those who live along Ruxton. But I do not think that the number of Incline users will noticeably increase if and when it becomes legal to climb.

Comment by Chris Murray on February 23, 2012 at 12:34pm

I do not feel we should ever have to pay to go into nature.  I would be perfectly happy paying for parking though, I do feel that is fair.  I would also love to see them install bike racks near the incline so I could start to pedal there and I do not want to lock my bike up somewhere that will get in the way of people trying to go to the cog.

Comment by Traci Fae on February 23, 2012 at 12:21pm

Check!